tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4987271399653590272.post6730281372754144425..comments2023-10-29T19:03:11.547-04:00Comments on A Pilgrim's Progress: Death Before Sin?Erichttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07306854704766653209noreply@blogger.comBlogger4125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4987271399653590272.post-70683539922158856672012-09-02T06:33:41.819-04:002012-09-02T06:33:41.819-04:00Chris,
Thank you for responding. Often we I ask ...Chris,<br /><br />Thank you for responding. Often we I ask questions in this format I do not receive answers.<br /><br />Our big area of disagreement is the range of information we should pull from scripture. You limit it where I don't.Erichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07306854704766653209noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4987271399653590272.post-50760245436849298412012-09-02T04:00:56.115-04:002012-09-02T04:00:56.115-04:00Hi Eric,
I'd like to begin by apologising for...Hi Eric,<br /><br />I'd like to begin by apologising for writing a careless and hasty comment (never a good idea). When I wrote that you 'misrepresent' truth I should perhaps have written 'misunderstand' instead. I certainly didn't mean to imply that you deliberately distort the truth.<br /><br />So, to your four questions. They're such good questions that I might write a blog post of my own for each one. But here are the short answers.<br /><br />First though, what I meant by 'real progress' was just 'progress'. I don't think I'll persuade you to a different view.<br /><br />Why believe anything the Bible says? Because it's the truth, spiritual truth. And it provides much historical truth too (though I and many others don't include creation as historically true).<br /><br />Why believe in miracles? I don't 'believe' in miracles, but I know that remarkable, unexpected, miraculous things happen when we put our trust in Jesus and follow him.<br /><br />How do you select which parts of the bible to believe literally? I would say that <i>all</i> of the Bible contains spiritual truth and much of it may be true in other ways too. But where there's strong evidence that it's not intended literally, I look for a deeper meaning. Jesus said that looking at a woman lustfully is sinful, he also said that if your eye causes you to sin you should pull it out. I take that to mean it's a very serious matter, but I don't think many people would take him literally. I don't think he intended anyone to take him literally.<br /><br />How do you explain death before sin? I don't explain it, it's self evident. There are many, many wild plants that are annuals or biennials. They germinate from a seed, they grow, they flower, they drop their seed, and they die. Again, I look for spiritual truth. Sin shatters our connection with the Father, that spells spiritual death. But it doesn't change the life cycle of annual meadow grass (Poa annua).Chris Jefferieshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07024046243018838005noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4987271399653590272.post-87570492756088152032012-09-01T17:53:55.482-04:002012-09-01T17:53:55.482-04:00Chris,
Thank you for reading and commenting. We ...Chris,<br /><br />Thank you for reading and commenting. We have the same Lord, which ultimately unites us even if we disagree on creation-related issues.<br /><br />I'm not sure what you mean by "real progress." If it means that either of us will change our minds, that appears unlikely (as you said).<br /><br />You've made two strong charges against me. I'd like to reply.<br /><br />First, you've stated that I misrepresent physical truth. That would be the case if all the evidence pointed in one direction. However, it does not. Some scientists hold to an evolutionary theory of the earth's beginnings while others do not. To write as if it is an open and shut case is irresponsible. Instead of letting mixed scientific findings, much of which comes from secularists, be my source of authority, I'll go with the bible instead.<br /><br />Second, you say that I misrepresent spiritual truth. You go on to say, "the Bible is not intended to teach us biology, or geology, or indeed poetry, or maths, or agriculture, or astronomy, or music, or literature, or warfare, or cookery, or medicine, or geography." I'll assume that my misrepresenting spiritual truth comes from my looking to the bible for some of the above things. The fascinating thing is that you've made an strong absolute statement about the bible, but have failed to support it with any evidence. How do you know that the bible is only for spiritual truth?<br /><br />I have a few questions for you:<br /><br />1. Why believe anything the bible says?<br /><br />2. Why believe in miracles?<br /><br />3. How do you select which parts of the bible to believe literally?<br /><br />4. How do you explain death before sin?Erichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07306854704766653209noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4987271399653590272.post-26893110277802452002012-09-01T08:41:20.876-04:002012-09-01T08:41:20.876-04:00I don't expect to make much real progress by w...I don't expect to make much real progress by writing this comment. I say that because I think you and I both know where we stand, have thought the issues through very thoroughly already, and will not be able to persuade one another.<br /><br />Having said that, there are two issues with what you have written. As I see it, you misrepresent physical truth, but you also misrepresent spiritual truth.<br /><br />There is a great deal of evidence for evolutionary biology, and also for the age of the Earth being around four and a half billion years.<br /><br />It seems to me unreasonable to dismiss all this evidence on the basis of texts written thousands of years before the evidence became available.<br /><br />How can we square the circle when the evidence runs against a literal interpretation of the words?<br /><br />To do so we need to recognise that the Bible is not intended to teach us biology, or geology, or indeed poetry, or maths, or agriculture, or astronomy, or music, or literature, or warfare, or cookery, or medicine, or geography. It contains elements of all these topics, but they are not the purpose.<br /><br />The Bible (the written word) and Jesus (the living Word) both reveal the nature of the Most High, the nature of people, and our relationship with him.<br /><br />Therefore we should not be looking for physical truth in the Bible, but spiritual truth.Chris Jefferieshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07024046243018838005noreply@blogger.com