tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4987271399653590272.post3983227075327663300..comments2023-10-29T19:03:11.547-04:00Comments on A Pilgrim's Progress: On Elders/Overseers/Pastors in the BibleErichttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07306854704766653209noreply@blogger.comBlogger12125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4987271399653590272.post-58401684565671438702010-10-07T07:11:02.514-04:002010-10-07T07:11:02.514-04:00Jacob,
Thanks for the feedback. It is difficult ...Jacob,<br /><br />Thanks for the feedback. It is difficult to know what to do with some of the passages that seem like they might refer to elders, but we just can't be certain. I think what I may do is first deal with the passages that directly mention elders/overseers/pastors, and then do another related series that deals with passages that may apply.<br /><br />Thanks again.Erichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07306854704766653209noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4987271399653590272.post-25299450920059161282010-10-07T06:42:41.957-04:002010-10-07T06:42:41.957-04:001 Pet 2:25 - It's speaking of Christ, not men,...1 Pet 2:25 - It's speaking of Christ, not men, but the fact that the same word groups are used is not irrelevant. <br /><br />It seems to me that the author of Hebrews uses the participle "leaders" in the same way and instead of the term "overseer" or "elder." They are the ones who "spoke the word of God to you" and he encourages them to "imitate their faith." They should be submitted to, are "keeping watch" over their souls, and must give an account for it. Leaving 13:7 and 13:17 out of such a discussion would be a big omission.<br /><br />Given the parallel argument between 1 Cor 9:9 and 1 Tim 5:18, that passage might in fact be applicable to the discussion.Jacobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05118447512741520828noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4987271399653590272.post-23432018262544464142010-10-06T16:31:02.540-04:002010-10-06T16:31:02.540-04:00Micah,
I can sympathize. At least there is an en...Micah,<br /><br />I can sympathize. At least there is an end to the semester!Erichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07306854704766653209noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4987271399653590272.post-40153067978750719542010-10-06T15:51:59.089-04:002010-10-06T15:51:59.089-04:00This is my fall break and I'm busier than ever...This is my fall break and I'm busier than ever!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4987271399653590272.post-4977011948244085702010-10-06T14:38:53.904-04:002010-10-06T14:38:53.904-04:00Micah,
I'm glad you are doing well. I'm ...Micah,<br /><br />I'm glad you are doing well. I'm not surprised about the busyness. Those papers are no "stroll in the park." No worries on the blogging. I hope you get a Fall Break that can be a real break instead of studying in the entire time.Erichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07306854704766653209noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4987271399653590272.post-21422993274387144672010-10-06T14:36:38.859-04:002010-10-06T14:36:38.859-04:00All is well, but I am very busy studying for my He...All is well, but I am very busy studying for my Hermeneutics midterm and preparing to write another paper so I really don't have time for that kind of research style blogging right now.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4987271399653590272.post-46076761233397600922010-10-06T14:27:05.601-04:002010-10-06T14:27:05.601-04:00Alan,
I may use that one. I think it clearly sho...Alan,<br /><br />I may use that one. I think it clearly shows that we all have some responsibility for oversight of one another's spiritual lives - it doesn't fall to simply the overseers.Erichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07306854704766653209noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4987271399653590272.post-1249269539200647362010-10-06T14:22:53.686-04:002010-10-06T14:22:53.686-04:00Eric,
One more quick thing: Hebrews 12:15 uses th...Eric,<br /><br />One more quick thing: Hebrews 12:15 uses the verb form of the noun usually translated "overseer". Since you're using the verb form of the noun "shepherd/pastor," I thought you might want to look at that one also. You'll probably decide not to include it in your series, but its an interesting passage to consider when thinking about "overseers."<br /><br />-AlanAlan Knoxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07452247058550736803noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4987271399653590272.post-3556172462391966732010-10-06T13:49:26.547-04:002010-10-06T13:49:26.547-04:00Micah,
That is an interesting verse. It seems li...Micah,<br /><br />That is an interesting verse. It seems like it probably refers to elders/pastors, but the verse doesn't say so. It may refer to them but to others also. Since we can't be certain, I'm not going to use it for this series. However, maybe you could blog about it. I would like to read that.<br /><br />I hope you are doing well. How is work going? What about classes?Erichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07306854704766653209noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4987271399653590272.post-5713203384969830662010-10-06T13:37:36.549-04:002010-10-06T13:37:36.549-04:001 Thess 5:121 Thess 5:12Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4987271399653590272.post-5383647680827713232010-10-06T13:05:33.283-04:002010-10-06T13:05:33.283-04:00Alan,
As for "leaders," I'm not sur...Alan,<br /><br />As for "leaders," I'm not sure how these relate to elders/overseers/pastors. It's an interesting question. Maybe you should blog about it. <br /><br />I suppose there is some overlap between elders and leaders, but I think we need to be careful that we don't automatically assume that they refer to the same people. For example, I don't believe women should be elders, but I could certainly see them in some sort of leadership role. We probably should all serve as some sort of servant-leaders in the church, especially in our areas of spiritual gifting.Erichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07306854704766653209noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4987271399653590272.post-16533286664058102472010-10-06T12:48:31.178-04:002010-10-06T12:48:31.178-04:00Eric,
This should be very interesting! I think yo...Eric,<br /><br />This should be very interesting! I think you've picked all the major passages. I can't think of any other NT passages that mentions pastors (it looks like you're using the verbal form as well), elders, or overseers.<br /><br />How do you think "leaders" in the NT (such as in Hebrews 13:7, Hebrews 13:17, and 1 Thessalonians 5:12-13) relate to elders/pastors/overseers?<br /><br />-AlanAlan Knoxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07452247058550736803noreply@blogger.com