According to the Monergism.com website, the term Ordo Salutis is "Latin for 'the order of salvation.' The ordo salutis is the theological doctrine that deals with the logical sequencing of the benefits of Salvation worked by Christ which are applied to us by the Spirit."
The Monergism site goes on to say the following,"In the Reformed camp, the ordo salutis is 1) election, 2) predestination, 3) gospel call 4) inward call 5) regeneration, 6) conversion (faith & repentance), 7) justification, 8) sanctification, and 9) glorification."
"In the Arminian camp, the ordo salutis is 1) outward call 2) faith/election, 3) repentance, 4) regeneration, 5) justification, 6) perseverance, 7) glorification."
Here is an honest question to any Arminians who may read this blog: If faith and repentance come before regeneration in the ordo salutis, then what is the purpose of regeneration?
I'd love to hear your answers (whether or not you hold to an Arminian view of salvation).
4 comments:
I've been waiting for the responses to come flooding in... so... apparently you've stumbled upon a stumper?!
I suppose there are two possible conclusions:
1. There are no good answers Arminains can give.
2. No Arminians read this blog.
I was hoping for at least a few answers. Oh well.
Dear Eric,
I mentioned to your Alice (following my daughter's piano lesson) that I had stumbled upon your blog (and I've now learned that she has a blog as well). I've not many things that blogging well would require - I've only just begun to try to introduce (hopefully reacquaint) my fb friends to the richness of our heritage in Chritian hymnody with Sunday fb posts - I don't have the stamina just now (ever?) to maintain a blog as you do, and I very much admire you for doing it, not the least reason for which is that it is a Christian ministry in itself.
Neither wholly Cavinist nor wholly Arminian (perhaps not all five petals constitue "my" TULIP), I cannot "go on the defensive" for the Arminians (who indeed may NOT have yet stumbled upon your blog), but I'll boldly share a few observations:
• I've searched for (Googled) Arminian representations of the Ordo Salutis - there are not so many (and seem to vary somewhat in nomenclature and outline), but then, perhaps Arminians don't tend to engage in the centuries old Calvinist-Wesleyan debate these days as do the Calvinists I've known and with whom I've worshipped these past two decades - the Calvinist camp could certainly take the tack that the Arminian camp has little with which to counter - and I'm sure that ..., well, that's a theory. (Additionally, not all Arminians have been one with Arminius or Wesley or other Arminians - not all Calvinists have been one with Calvin or Whitefield or other Calvinists.)
• That said, I can only suspect that using a purportedly Arminian outline taken from a Reformed website is easier than using only one such outline from among a variety of such models among the Wesleyans. However, doing so could lay one open to a charge of merely erecting a paper tiger.
• All that aside, the true difficulty that I have with analysis of the Ordo Salutis is two-fold - Briefly:
> First, this "Ordo" is, necessarily, discernment from a human time-bound viewpoint concerning the work of our eternal God. For God, in what way is that order, a human perception of the time-sequence of God's actions, meaningful to Him in eternity?
> The second problem follows as to the meaning of that order to His human creatures, most pointedly in application. Does the poor Arminian Christian then suffer from a defective salvation due to a defective time-bound comprehension of what YAHWEH, God in eternity, graciously bestows upon him?
Concerning the last point, I do realize that considerations of time versus eternity are very nearly unfathomable for us, His creatures, and I do not seek to introduce His mysteries to simply cloud your question. Please also know that sharing these thoughts is well-intentioned and no derogation of you or your ministry (quite the contrary), and
May God Bless You and Alice and Your Family,
Bob ><>
Bob,
Thanks for commenting. Sorry it took me a while to get back to you.
The ordo salutis is a topic that I used to think about quite a bit, but lately my interests have shifted more towards the church. Because of this, I haven't written about it in a while. Despite that, I still think it is an important issue.
I've come to the conclusion that this issue should not divide Christians. Sadly, there are many denominations today that divide over just this particular issue. This would not please Christ (John 17).
Regarding God's role in salvation, we know that He has accomplished all the work. Sometimes it can be difficult, however, for our finite minds (like mine) to grasp God's timetable. You bring up a good point about eternity.
I grew up in the Wesleyan denomination. I was raised thinking that man has free will to choose God. God was portrayed as desiring that all people be saved, but not actually making it happen for anyone. It was ultimately up to man.
In my study of scripture I've seen something different. God has done all the work of salvation and, I believe, has saved a particular people (His church) for Himself. This does not in any way take away man's responsibility to repent and believe. No one has ever been saved apart from faith. Therefore, we need to be active in proclaiming the gospel.
I'll admit that I don't have everything figured out related to this topic (and never will). I could be wrong. That's certainly happened before.
I think the key with an issue like this is that Christians be able to discuss it, look in scripture, either agree or disagree, and remain united regardless.
God bless.
Eric
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